In today's episode, we unravel the complexities of photography's evolution in the AI age with our guest, Sean Turi, a renowned photographer who's venturing into the worlds of YouTube and podcasting. From redefining the borders of reality and artifice in photography to the enigma of UFO image debunking, prepare for a fascinating voyage into the intersection of technology and visual art.
Guest: Sean Turi, Owner at Turi Productions LLC
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-turi-photography-46670554/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/seanturiphoto
On Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/seanturi
On YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0b-nziNwAVVgAFA1-kzRJA
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Hosts:
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Welcome to another captivating episode of Audio Signals, your go-to podcast for discussions at the crossroads of art, creativity, and technology. Today, our host Marco Ciappelli delves into a profound exploration of a rapidly changing world – one where photography is being radically redefined by technology, AI in particular.
Joining him is Sean Turi, a seasoned New York-based photographer who, recently, has expanded his professional orbit to encompass YouTube and podcasting. Together, they question whether this intersection of technology and photography blurs the lines between reality and artifice, or merely enhances our creativity.
In this episode, Marco and Sean grapple with questions that have risen alongside the proliferation of AI in the photographic realm. Can we continue to perceive photography as an art of creativity in the face of such change? Does technology obscure or accentuate the distinction between the real and the artificial? They also delve into a more intriguing topic – UFO image and video debunking – a niche Sean has developed a particular interest in.
A tech-enthusiast at heart, Sean sheds light on his journey from traditional photography to exploring the possibilities of AI and advanced technology in his craft. From debunking UFO imagery to investigating the blurred lines of AI-generated visuals, he combines his photographic expertise with technological tools, making for an incredibly engaging conversation.
Marco, with his indomitable curiosity and knack for deep-diving into subjects, prods Sean to share his views and experiences on deciphering the authenticity of images in the digital age. They delve into discussions about everything from the rise of deepfakes to the transformative effects of AI on the art and science of photography.
This episode promises to be an enlightening dialogue that unearths various facets of photography's future and the looming challenges in discerning reality from fiction in our technology-ridden world. So tune in, enjoy the conversation, and join us in pondering over these thought-provoking subjects. Don't forget to share it with your friends and subscribe to Audio Signals for more compelling discussions. Let's explore the intriguing world of tech-infused creativity together!
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Resources
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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voiceover00:15
Welcome to the intersection of technology, cybersecurity, and society. Welcome to ITSPmagazine podcast radio, you're about to listen to a new episode of audio signals get ready to take a journey into the unknown, the unknown and everything in between. record that no specific point in time nor space. ITSPmagazine is co founders Marco Ciappelli. And Shawn Martin followed their passion and curiosity as they venture away from the intersection of technology, cybersecurity, and society to discover new stories worth being told. Knowledge is power. Now, more than ever.
Marco Ciappelli01:03
I feel like Shawn, we already started recording a while back, but we didn't actually finish the process like we could capture some piece of that conversation. And let's get started properly. This is Marco Ciappelli audio signals is the podcast we are on today, which means we don't need to talk technology and society. But I have a feeling we will touch on that. Because I can't escape these, this curse of talking about Technology, and Society no matter what it is. But I think this is gonna be a great conversation. We're here with Sean Turi. Today, he is a photographer. But he was something else before that. And he sounds to me that he has a very interesting story to share and a lot of passion. And I feel like from the little that we talked before we started recording. Some of those are very similar. We both love technology, creative art. And we realize that we can't live without it. But we can probably live better with it. If we do it in the right way. So enough about me, Sean, introduce yourself, please to our audience, and then we just have a nice conversation about whatever it is. Sure.
Sean Turi02:24
So I'm, Sean Turi as Marco mentioned and I'm a photographer that by trade, I have a studio in New York City. And more recently, I've expanded and started my YouTube channel and podcast with individuals that I've worked with, just based on some of the truly fascinating individuals I've been able to learn from and work with in the studio. And and also just start diving into some really interesting questions that when I'm not working, I'm normally down the rabbit hole searching. So now I'm sort of combining my area of expertise with some of these questions, utilizing some of the latest technology now, now more than ever, and we'll see where, where it takes me.
Marco Ciappelli03:14
Well, you know, I think one of the code that I use the most in my life, it's the only constant is change. So we need to stay open minded, and, you know, Follow Follow your passion. I mean, I can I'm doing the same thing I wouldn't you asked me years ago, if I was going to start doing a podcast I probably said, I don't know, probably not. But then, you know, it happened. I'm loving it. And, and I'm taking advantage of technology. And I talk about technology quite a bit. One thing that I was curious, and maybe we can start there, how did you go from being a photographer to having a YouTube video that from what I've seen, you actually talk about UFO, quite a bit, and you kind of figure out if technology it's cheating us or if it actually it's something that it could be a real image and you use as you said, the latest technology to to figure out what technology is doing. So how is that the passion that you had since when you were a kid and you finally get to the point to to cultivate it more?
Sean Turi04:27
I would say anything space related is always been something I'm interested in. And actually before I even knew I wanted to be a photographer I was taking pictures of stars and planets with a point shoot camera, and this is before I'd any photographer and then I got into photography, but my business is more portrait and it's people like if you want that's what I specialize in. I specialize in working with people. So mostly portrait work and then And as I've had my career now for 15 years, I'm starting to circle back and utilize some of my skill set as a photographer and applying it to some of these things that I'm interested in. One of those are UFOs, or UAPs. If you don't find these, like now more than ever really interesting or thought provoking, I don't know what will. And so I'm I'm now sort of analyzing some of the the footage and photos that we see online, and applying some of my skill set and reviewing and analyzing the images. And there's a bunch of different ways you can do this. And now there's even some AI tools that I was using, in conjunction with reviewing these images. But it's very difficult, and it's becoming increasingly difficult, or I would say almost impossible to have a hard stamp on and say this is real, unless you have the original raw file or negative. It's very difficult. But there's a lot of sloppy editing that you can catch if you have the right eye. Yeah, and there's a lot of and obviously a lot of fakes.
Marco Ciappelli06:09
Right. So now I'm gonna bite my tongue because I can make these all about fake and AI and charge it up and how to use technology to find out what technology is doing. And almost like the only cure for more technology is more technology. We don't know about that. But I'm more curious from from an artistic perspective and from a cultural perspective. So my first question that comes to my mind is, is these interests the pub more, you know, up, let's say on the surface, due to that the classification, there was done a few months ago, I believe, from the US government about all the UFO images and and reports that they were having. I'm not an expert in that. But I remember something happening there.
Sean Turi07:03
Yeah, and I wouldn't call myself an expert either. But that's part of it. It's, it's becoming more and more plausible that it's something and that's interesting. That's what's interesting to me, it's no longer Farmer Joe from Kansas, spotting bright light. I mean, that there's, you know, classify confirm military footage, we have naval pilots, reputable naval pilots, a lot of military guys coming out. There's a lot of reputable sources. And if you start spider webbing, and connecting all these dots, and there's a ton of documentaries now on this, there's a lot of, there's a common theme with what's being found or seen. And so that is very interesting. And you could really start tying this stuff to go you know, you go down the rabbit of like, tying into the pyramids and going way back and all that but it's, it makes you it's becoming more and more real. Now, whether it's local, you know, Blackout project stuff, or is it some someone visiting for an up from another planet? I mean, that's up for debate, but it's based on my research, I'm starting to form a position though I did just watch another documentary by this guy. I think it's James Fox, about an alien sighting in Brazil, Virginia, Brazil. And that is like you almost have to you can't make it up like clearly something was seen like this is a an alien encounter by like a whole town hardcore covered up. Like there's too many people, I witnesses and people that are part of this. So that threw a fork in my position because after doing these YouTube videos, my position actually shifted more towards I think most of these are blacktop projects. But then you have you know, documentaries like James Fox put out and I believe that's his name, and it's throws a wrench in it because that is very believable. And I'm not trying to believe it. You know, I when I do these videos, I tried to say factually based you can only go by the information and try to stay unbiased, but some of it really the one 1% or half a percent of it really makes your heads scratch your head. The aerial school that I did a video on in Africa, Zimbabwe, Africa. Usually your 60 kids are saying this whole the same thing at a young age, they all do the same thing. They're analyzed by psychiatrist. What is that? I mean, can you count is that just collective lying? I don't know. But um,
Marco Ciappelli09:47
oh, go ahead. No, no, no. I'm wondering the same thing. But what I'm also understanding is that apart from what you believe in terms of a Allien search Should in space? And do are they visiting us? I mean, we have a show called stories from space and ITSPmagazine. And Matt Williams is a journalist, an astronomer journalist, and he actually went all over the different hypothesis, you know, from Fermi to are we alone in the universe to the the, the zoo? Hypothesis where yeah, there are people there, but they're actually looking at us. It's not us looking at them. So really interesting. But what am I trying understanding is that your interest is it's insane. Okay, these images is, is real now, is that a UFO or it is a some kind of advanced technology used here. That's, that's a different story, you're more into studying the image itself. So yeah,
Sean Turi10:53
so here's my approach. I'll troubleshoot will narrow down, I have a small team that I work with the put together doing these videos. And so we'll narrow it down to the most plausible video and imagery. So I'm not just taking any random will try to get the ones that are more plausible. And then from there, I'll see what what unique perspective I can offer, as a photographer, opposed to me just talking about UFO photos. So the cherry picking this the videos or the images based on what I think I can offer a unique perspective to the image. And of course, once you put it out there, you're challenged and called an idiot by the whole UFO community, and you know, you get half of them, and then the other half for insulting what you're wearing in your video. And, you know, they give you all the side comments. But um, so that's my approach, like, I don't want to just I'm trying to pick topics and images that I feel like I can offer a unique perspective on. So we'll review the images and see if I can, what I can detect about these. That may not have been mentioned before.
Marco Ciappelli12:09
Is there some particular one that really stuck more in like, in your head or your I don't know, you had a better feedback. And now with you, I mean, when you put yourself out there on social media get ready for anything, and the bed, but for you personally, you know, something that you'd like, you know, I really got something important here that this is a turning point in the way that I'm actually going to look at the next image, the next video, the next footage, so, you know, kind of like an earache a moment or something that you want to share with us?
Sean Turi12:43
You know, that's, that's a good question. Because the the ones that are jumping out to me most, there's no images associated with which, you know, makes you question your own judgment, but the aerial school, and this last one, this last documentary, I watched, there are no released images. But the story is overwhelmingly believable, based on the amount of people involved seeing the same thing. Like corroborating the same story. But but all of these, and I don't know if it's ironic that these images have been pulled, you know, it's like, you know, do are there higher ups that are pulling all the images in cleans, sweeping all the data on these? I don't know, there is one video I did, or two videos back, and I forget which one it was in Costa Rica. And it's, it's, I would say very questionable in terms of it being real, like it's definitely something an artifact in the image. And there's been scientific studies and you've got, you know, you've had people doing the calculations on the speed and the direction. And it's very believable image. But I would say the most believable topics that I've ever come across in the UFO or the UFO AP realm so far, there's no tangible evidence behind it, other than the eyewitnesses and the, from across the board, from civilians to military.
Marco Ciappelli14:10
From a technical, let's talk about the medium, right, I mean, photography, videos, which just a lot of photography together, if you want to simplify that, yep, yep. But nowadays, and I go back into kind of like technology and society, we're all walking around with very powerful camera. I mean, I have friends photographer that said to me, you know, our iPhone 14, it's, I call it a camera with a phone. It's not really a phone anymore. And it's also known as a dictionary, a search engine and everything possible app you have on there, but the fact that we all have this, it helps to uncover a lot of things in society. I mean, we're going pullet political things that maybe have always happened, but Now we actually see them. But then there's people that are using now artificial intelligence to even deny the fact that they did say something like now that's fake. It's kind of like become a coverage. So I love your perspective on this is first of all, the technology part. Is it easier to fake? A video or easier to fake an image, a static image? I think I know the answer. But I would love your opinion and why? And also, why don't we even have even more reports now? And it's curious, I'm asking you this, because you said the one that you think are most believable are the one without the footage, which kind of makes me think,
Sean Turi15:43
right, yeah,
Marco Ciappelli15:46
so I know, it's a lot together. But you know, just so that about,
Sean Turi15:51
I would say what video is always more complex, because there's just more components involved in video. So I would say video would be harder to fake. Because what you're essentially grabbing is still, let's say, if we're doing a photo, it's a bit easier to fake that because you're working with a frozen moment in time. Once you get into video, you've got camera movement, lighting direction can change, then you could add like wind direction, could change lighting, all these other elements need to be accounted for when you're faking something, and you have to get it all just right. And many times, if you don't get it just right, your AI will detect it, you might not be able to put your finger on it, but you can see that something is a little off. So it's a video is definitely harder to to fake AI. Like, it's going to be indistinguishable. If it's not already, I just I just used the site just playing around to recreate my voice for free. Yep, you do five minutes sample, my voice is done, I can have it do give me a voicemail. I could use it however I want. Then there's now you're doing their sites now with AI and your avatar. So you pair that your AI voice your avatar. I mean, this is so new, but it's already it's already in the works. You're getting then you have the deep fakes the deep fake videos, where you know, those are more high end professionals creating these, but those are getting pretty darn good. Like really good. And once that's consumer level soon enough, that'll just be an app, if it's allowed. And then we'll you know, can we distinguish that the spot of fake or real? No way, it'll be too good. It's just about there already. But once we can actually start going and creating ourselves or other people, and it'd be indistinguishable, you know, unless you have the original file, which probably with probably like the meta data baked into it, but you need to just like pull it, download it, re export it, and it loses all the information. And then how do you distinguish what's what's real or what's not real. I mean, that's going to happen really, really fast. I mean, the next five years, will be a very, very different climate that we work in and how we interact, how we look up data. It's it'll change everything, how we, how we approach our jobs, how we do our jobs. Yeah, that is a very, obviously exciting curve that we're about to step into. I mean, it's already happening with we all know, chat GPT. But, like, just wait to the applications. And then there's, you know, there's quantum computers, which is gonna be like another evolution of computers, where we can start doing do answering like really big questions and doing scientific data research without doing lab experiments. And that'll this is gonna happen. They're the everyone's racing towards this. I mean, it's very clear now that AI can be monetized and that people are interested in it's now we have all the big players racing towards this. So with image fakery, faking, it'll be indistinguishable, you no matter how good I am, because AI is going to be able to take all these factors, the lighting, the the time of day, elevation, all these things that we have to think about critically, it'll just be in one, one calculation output, and it'll be all accounted for. And like, you could have me or another person be very, very difficult or impossible to detect what's real and what's fake.
Marco Ciappelli19:32
Well, I haven't personally played much with the voice although I, it's on my list of things to do. The Avatar played a lot with Chad GPT. And I actually,
Sean Turi19:44
I use I use these tools all the time now. I use them all the time every day. Yeah.
Marco Ciappelli19:49
So and I love it. I'm with you. I mean, I like it. I think right now even if you use the the four version It's, it's still a mediocre writer, in my opinion, it's great to play with it and give you some inputs. If you're writing creatively, I think if you're doing a report, it's different story. But where you told me, it kind of make me really processed, something I didn't think about because once they're saying all the variables that you were talking about, and I play with Dali, for example, you know, given an input, and you come up with an image, but this via the fact that you could go there and say, give me a video filmed at 630 in the morning, in Anchorage, Alaska, on this day, and he can actually go and really literally see what the weather was what the lighting was, and create and put a freakin you know, Sauser in the sky, or whatever, or person in the street or a political person, having a meeting with someone else, it is mind blowing. In my mind, it's kind of scary.
Sean Turi21:04
And so that's how I've been looking at it is yeah, and if you combine that like we do it with the YouTube thumbnails, you combined Ayar with good photoshop skills. Like what you can create and what a small amount of time is. Whatever you're the only limitation is your your own thoughts. And you can do it quickly. The only limitation the what it can't do great yet. And this and I'm testing the boundaries with this are realistic, like photorealistic humans, because I think for me, the next evolution will be not come to my studio, and I saw one company in India is doing this, but it's, it's, it's pretty hacky right now, the next evolution from what I do will be, hey, send me 10 photos, different angles of your face, I put it into the AI. And I can recreate you in any wardrobe expression, and lighting, and background of course. And so there's no reason to for you to come to the studio, and the next evolution be like Well Give me your product, you just need cell phone shots. And then we can recreate it in any setting, it's all AI. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think a lot of photographers would challenge me on my position with this, but I'm, so I'm chomping at the bit to see when that's going to happen, because I'll be all over that. Because for me how I view it, it's all about the end result. So how we get there, I don't have an ego or an emotional attachment to how we get to the end result.
Marco Ciappelli22:42
Well, you're gonna come back even if we're not done yet, but I'm taking notes with touching a lot of things that I want to get deeper into. Right now I want to just reconnect because you are a a photographer, you have been actually in the in the fashion industry for understand for for a while before doing that. So you know, the creative world. Now, we both know that a lot of issue with generative artificial intelligence is the copywriting. So, you know, just sweep around campioni campaigns of music, images from you know, Picasso, to the VINCI to one of your picture, for example. So who owns what I mean, writers are on strike right now. Because if it started by AI, then I come in and I make it better. Who owns the concept idea. I mean, I understand all of that. But you are actually excited talking about this. You're telling me somebody can send you the 10 photo shot and your make, I mean, not photoshopped photos, and then you're gonna make the amazing creative fashion shot, I'm imagine so help me to understand why you think that way and why a lot of other photographers are freaking out about that. Is it like a different view on what it means to create what it means to take? I mean, do you need to be there and shot it like you know, in the street it oh, I mean, you're telling me no, it's you're like a digital creator, literally digitally creating an image literally, to do video games and all that kind of stuff. I mean, for me, there's still already so I'm going with you. But it's a different angle. So
Sean Turi24:34
for sure. I think it would be a challenge. Yeah, I think I would be challenged by a lot of artists with my position with that, but I never that's going to happen is like digital going from film to digital photography. It's happening baby. So either you're gonna get on board or the train keeps moving. Okay, so that's just that's just reality check. Okay, but for me per Personally, I love the internet. I, I love technology, I love all the new new gear that comes out, how can we utilize it? I don't see those as roadblocks personally, if I, okay, so you could flip me and say, Well, hey, Shawn, what if someone is, say, making money off of images that look like Sean Terry photography, right, like portraits in the style of Shawn, and they're making money off my images, what's my position, my position is free marketing, that's that'll give my style to more people, I'll go out and create something even cooler and more unique brand that and I'll be on the tip of the spear. While I get all this marketing around me with people using my style, that's my position, like the rest of its, in my opinion, if you want me to be like, brutally honest, it's all excuses. The ups are you are making excuses why you can't continue to succeed at what you're doing. So you can sit there and complain about these things, or you can become creative, and utilize it as a tool to move forward. So that's my position with it. And you know, coupled with, I'm deeply fascinated, fascinated by all of this. And I do see I'm very excited about like when they can, when the AI can do get there, like I use my journey. And I've already seen the difference in the last, you know, four or five months, when it gets there, I'll be the first in line to start testing these concepts out right now we can use it for moodboard shots. But it still looks like a CGI, human. But I think there's incredible potential with that. And and for the consumer is going to drive the cost down. You don't need to spend $800 $1,500 on a photo shoot. You can, you know, send your snapshots over. And we can create something for a fraction of the price, faster turnaround more customizable. for their benefit to it.
Marco Ciappelli27:02
Can you explain in short, what an app like me journey does? So you mention you can do like some storyboards, some, you know, sketching, but how do you use it? And what is the potential that you're talking about? Like where do you see it going so so that people can understand or maybe get fascinated by it and go and try it because a lot of people are criticizing this without even trying it.
Sean Turi27:31
Oh, man, everyone, it's each free to try major and you're dolly dolly is a little bit easier to use. You have to try these tools. So you can it's like putting on virtual virtual reality headset, which is another thing I use. In my workflow. It's like putting on a virtual reality hat for the first time it kind of blows your mind on like you go, Wow, you get a glimpse of the future. It's so mid journey are these these AI AR programs, essentially, you're creating images with text. And right now you can create anything under the sun, you could say Santa Claus wearing a bikini on Monday, you know, on South Beach, and it'll create that. So how I'm using it right now is creating mood boards for clients. So what I'll do is I'll get a image of my client, I'll describe the client, so I have the seat. So the AI creates an image roughly, of the look of the client. And then from there, I'll create the lighting, you know, set the mood with the text and how I want the image to look. And let's see, I'll create four different samples. You know, if there's a blond haired blue eyed client, I have all put in the description, green background, one with a light blue background, one with three quarter lighting. And we'll create these options so the client can see them like loosely see how this lighting would look on them. So that's how I'm using it right now. But it'll get better to where it just looks like the client I've played around with it and with my own images, and it's it's not I couldn't charge anyone for for the output just yet.
Marco Ciappelli29:14
So I started as a as a copywriter when I was still studying in an ad agency and this was a long time ago. I mean, we were still doing storyboard. I when I started my first advertising agency in Italy it will take one I Spent night in the printing press to do brochure and you know, the Internet was yeah, it was cool. But yeah, I mean I'm talking about I finished my my college was 96 So you know I date myself but that's that's where I am. So I have this experience with the analog and and the digital and I love it. I mean if you look behind me you can see it record. You know vinyl I love that but at least the most of my music There's no surrounding stuff. So my point is, I don't think there is anything bad or better than the other. It's, I think, is both art. And if your art is to us to go back to photography, a camera that is an old school, L shaped like with the mirror, and you want to take all the shots like that on film, which is what a lot of people are doing nowadays. That's cool. But I think that what you're describing for me, it's, it's art as the other one, right? It's like, what do you play a sensitizer? Or a violin? Well, I think both an artist just different. So
Sean Turi30:47
you know why? And I guess that's a good question to start with is what's the definition of art. Because, you know, it's not one for I think there's a lot of feelings and ego involved when one finds their art. And the style, or approach to it begins to change. Because if you do art correctly, there's a massive, it's, there's a huge emotional and personal investment in your art is you, you are one with that. So when that changes, that's a big personal hit. And many times you, you know, a lot of people react differently to change, and many times it's resisted. But if you learn to adapt, there's a great book on this too by Mark, Mark Rubin, Rick Rubin, who's the producer, Rick Rubin, if you learn to adapt with it, it's a tool. It's all art. It's all creativity, it comes in all different facets. And you can merge them to, it doesn't have to be one replaces the other. It's new, you know, life is not in the black and white. So you can use these things as tools, see it as options. But it's going to happen, you know, it's going to happen. So whether you choose to resist it or not as another thing, I'd be so curious, I don't I it would be a separate conversation, but your trade as a copywriter. I mean, you are a prime candidate to be hating, chat GPT, Jasper, all these AI writing tools? I'd be so curious to know you what your opinion is with with all of this, especially with the the union right now on strike, right?
Marco Ciappelli32:30
Yeah, that's why I mentioned that. I mean, I understand the copyright issue. And I love how you know, you're hosting and I'm the guest. So the answer for me is no, no, no, I love that. The answer for me is the same that you gave meaning. It's a challenge and you can use it as a tool. And not to see it as is going to take my job now that my job now it's writing copywriting anymore, but I'm still like, you know, writing. But I'm very happy to have Chad GPT. Write the summary for this episode. Give me a cool title. But I asked for five, maybe I merged them together, right? Maybe I award it in a way that is going to actually give me a good result. I'm not just going to say listen to this and give me a summary, I'm going to say highlight this, invite the listener to think about this. So when I get it, it's almost like, you know, I have my input in it, which is what you described about the me journey. Like, you're not just saying, Hey, give me something cool. Well, that's, that's cheating, right? But being an art director, and say, Look, this is my vision, you can tell this to a photographer or a videographer, or an actor, or you can tell it to an artificial intelligence for what I'm concerned. But the result does come from your creative input, because that's one thing that at least now, generative AI cannot give you is that emotional creativity that you need to bring into the tool. So I think
Sean Turi34:18
you know, you're one of the few that I've heard, maybe the only one that I've I've heard is open minded to it from the writer circle, which is really cool to hear. And I think you hit the nail on the head with it. It's at least right now. It's not, it won't do everything for you. It's still if you read the copy and the content, it comes from it. It's quite flat. I don't know if that's because they monitor and read it put a lot of regulations behind it. But the content is flat. There is no there's no life, no emotion. There's no emotions. So that has to come from the human right now at least. And but I think I think I think humans will always have their special place. And we know there's something that we, you know, that is unique that all of us have to offer, which is also why I think we all are artists, in some sense, even though some may not consider themselves an artist, we all have something unique and special that we can offer the world from our own unique perspective. And what channel you put that down is different for everyone.
Marco Ciappelli35:29
I kind of want to kind of want to finish with this. I thought it was very inspiring what you said, I love it. And honestly, I think we went into a lot of different places with this conversation. But I No kidding. I mean, I would love to go deeper in some of the things that you do and even look at some other perspective in terms of, you know, copyright, because another thing that yeah, it's beautiful. From a writer perspective, or an artist perspective, but when we're you don't get paid for what you do, then I can I can see what, you know, the reason why the writers are striking, right? Or why a lot of the creative communities worried about this?
Sean Turi36:13
Yep. Yeah, it's under it's an understandable concern, when it's your your income. But But yeah, that's a whole, I guess, a separate conversation. I've had that wish to have it though. Yeah, I'd be I'd be, I'd be you. I'm gonna have it now or later.
Marco Ciappelli36:31
Now what I think now we close it were 35 minutes, but I think we leave our audience with a with a follow up that will come and we'll talk more about this. This, you know, maybe making making money with your art. That's, that may be the title of right.
Sean Turi36:51
And that's a whole other thing to talk about. On hopefully, Apple drops their VR headset by the time we speak. And I can talk. You know, that's a whole lot. The VR stuff is a whole other tech spectrum I could get into but yeah,
Marco Ciappelli37:03
I'm happy to talk about that, too. Cool. Sean, thank you so much for your time. It's a lot to think about. And I'm going to finish and close the episode with what I always say. So if the audience, it's leaving this conversation with a lot more questions than when it started, we did a good job. I don't try to give answers. If I make people think and you've definitely helped me with that. I think we had a good conversation and a good episode. Please share with us any resources that you want to point out, I'll put it in the notes for the episode and of course, for everybody listening, there will be links to Shawn's website and to Shawn's social media and to get in touch with him and follow us. Share it if you enjoyed it, Shawn, thank you very much.
Sean Turi37:56
Thanks again Margo.
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